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GasTruth Veteran Author Boston Posts:369 Points:112,950 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Apr 6, 2012 11:24:12 PM Ignore GasTruth Report Abuse Here is an idea that I have not heard of but would love to try. Of course boycotting a particular brand or on certain days is useless but how about we boycott all company run stations. Every Mobil, Exxon, Shell etc has company owned and operated stations as well as open dealer, small business owner, run stations. If we do that then Big Oil will make much less profits. They would sell the same amount of gallons but the last 10-20 cents a gallon, money your paying anyway, will go to the local business owner not Big OIl. Not to mention all the lost profits from the convenience store, car wash etc you would have purchased there. Since you have to buy gas and choose to use a particular brand then choose to give your business to the local guy.

GasTruth

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Boston

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Message Posted: Apr 6, 2012 11:24:12 PM

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Here is an idea that I have not heard of but would love to try. Of course boycotting a particular brand or on certain days is useless but how about we boycott all company run stations. Every Mobil, Exxon, Shell etc has company owned and operated stations as well as open dealer, small business owner, run stations. If we do that then Big Oil will make much less profits. They would sell the same amount of gallons but the last 10-20 cents a gallon, money your paying anyway, will go to the local business owner not Big OIl. Not to mention all the lost profits from the convenience store, car wash etc you would have purchased there. Since you have to buy gas and choose to use a particular brand then choose to give your business to the local guy.

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plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,842 Points:2,841,070 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 12:06:41 PM Ignore plastic Report Abuse Another silly boycott idea. An oil company is still going to trade all of its oil on the oil market. No amount of boycotting will affect on single drop. What you will accomplish is hurting American business owners and American workers. It won't work.
catfish99 Champion Author Wilmington Posts:13,989 Points:2,498,475 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 7:09:45 AM Ignore catfish99 Report Abuse Jenny, My local Exxon station is owned by a mechanic. It is a convenience store/station now, as he as transitioned it over the years to try and stay in business. Same deal with one of the Shell stations, although he still thinks like a repair shop first and a store second. A brand name on the station only means there is some sort of supply and branding agreement.
KansasGunman Champion Author Kansas City Posts:21,436 Points:2,104,440 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:58:12 PM Ignore KansasGunman Report Abuse No it won't...never has, never will but if it makes ya feel all warm and fuzzy inside, by all means give give it a try!
Michael29644 Champion Author Greenville Posts:4,974 Points:844,250 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 1:02:32 PM Ignore Michael29644 Report Abuse "I think this is an excellent idea. I take my business to the small station owners whenever I can, not only for fuel, but for repairs, etc. Our local station owner tells us that the prices he gets for fuel have everything to do with the big companies, who essentially own the market. The more business we give the small owners, the more fuel they buy, and the greater their influence in the market." Jenyeager66, I've got some news for you, the overwhelming majority of nationally branded stations are actually locally owned franchises. I understand where you are coming from about giving your money to the small station owners, but your local Shell/Exxon/Citgo/BP/(fill in the blank) station is very likely owned by a small business owner in your community, too. Just something to consider.
jenyeager66 Rookie Author San Diego Posts:1 Points:1,250 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 12:38:19 PM Ignore jenyeager66 Report Abuse I think this is an excellent idea. I take my business to the small station owners whenever I can, not only for fuel, but for repairs, etc. Our local station owner tells us that the prices he gets for fuel have everything to do with the big companies, who essentially own the market. The more business we give the small owners, the more fuel they buy, and the greater their influence in the market.
NickoliMB Champion Author Manitoba Posts:2,518 Points:473,205 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 12:34:38 PM Ignore NickoliMB Report Abuse Lots of ideas.In Canada they are urging a boycott against the two biggest companies Petro Canada and Esso.I don't know if it will work..I guess the consumer is fed up with the games the big companies play in ripping off the public to fill their pockets and the multi-million dollar payrolls of CEC'sd that come up with ideas to fill their pockets.Quite frankly I will try anything to bring about honesty from the oil companies, BUT that word does not exist in their vocabulary.Last time there was a scheduled boycott they just sky-rocketed the prizes prior.I personally think big or small...they are all in it together to rip off the consumer.
brerrabbitTX Champion Author Houston Posts:1,030 Points:18,285 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 9:05:24 AM Ignore brerrabbitTX Report Abuse As far as finding the three sites based on the criteria you would use, you would never find them. They are low volume not very nice stations and the only reason we still own them is because we can't sell them and will soon shut them down. I think you what you completely fail to understand is that the big oil companies do not want to own gas stations. Chevron has completely exited 18 states, Exxon has pulled out of several states and plan to leave more. Shell has gone to a wholesale model only. There is 0 value in owning and operating gas stations in the eyes of the oil majors. By this criteria any boycotte real or imagined would only hurt the independent dealers and have no effect on the majors, or price. Sure you can throw the JV's back at me, but those are almost meaningless. JV's are usually operated by the other partner, (not the oil company) because they are the ones who know how to operate a gas station profitably, the major can't. The oil company has two people on the board of the JV and everyone else is employed by the other party. The major has no say in pricing at the pump. All they get out of it is the gas sales to the JV at the wholesale level, and 50% of the JV profits if there are any.My posts always seem to go to long, but I have to add this. Brent North Sea crude cloised yesterday at 117.97 a barrel. Add $10 a barrel to ship it to the US. That makes crude 3.046 a gallon. Now add the per gallon tax you pay in your state. In Texas where I live it 38.4. That comes to $3.43 a gallon. I bought gas this morning for $3.799. That leaves 36.9 cents a gallon to refine the oil into gas, transport it to a terminal via pipeline, railcar, or barge, store it till needed, put additives in it, put ethanol in it, take it by truck from the terminal to the station, tank it at the station until I show up to buy it. Not only does the 36.9 cents cover the costs of all that, it also has to cover everyone in the food chains profit as well. Now given all that why do you think for one minute that someone, or more specifically the retail site operator, should take a lose to sell you cheaper gas? Everyone in that chain does it to make money, not keep you happy. So Boycotte away, but realistically if you look at the facts of oil to gas prices how can you believe that the price should be significantly less? Why is everyone looking for a handout? [Edited by: brerrabbitTX at 4/19/2012 9:06:33 AM EST]
GasTruth Veteran Author Boston Posts:369 Points:112,950 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 12:15:09 AM Ignore GasTruth Report Abuse brerrabbit The only thing I will concede is that "no one can orginize such an effort" But if such an organization could be formed the 4%, not 2% as you suggested, of original Big Oil (Shell, Mobil etc) plus the whatever % of the new Big Oil (wholesaler, Distributor) that operate retail sites would in fact have some effect on their profits. Just take a look at your company's 3 sites. How profitable would they be if they lost 20% of business across the board (conv sales, car wash, volume etc.) Maybe they would loose just enough profits where they would not be worth operating. By the way. How was my guess at finding your 3 sites. Tell me the brand and the state don't need the city and I bet I could find them.
catfish99 Champion Author Wilmington Posts:13,989 Points:2,498,475 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Apr 13, 2012 6:30:08 AM Ignore catfish99 Report Abuse I want to highlight something brerrabbit said, because it might get lost in his response: 3) the fundementals of the business are such that gas cannot be produced, delivered and sourced for much less cost than it currently is. I've been making this point for years, saying that even if retailers and refiners sold at cost we would be staring at $4.00 gas. Boycotters, why do you demand that other people pay for your gas?
Michael29644 Champion Author Greenville Posts:4,974 Points:844,250 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Apr 13, 2012 12:00:30 AM Ignore Michael29644 Report Abuse I think I'll start boycotting the boycotters. They add nothing to this site but misinformed rhetoric.
brerrabbitTX Champion Author Houston Posts:1,030 Points:18,285 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 12, 2012 9:12:38 AM Ignore brerrabbitTX Report Abuse Gastruth, I have no agenda what so ever. The only thing I try to do is to inform people how the industry actually works. And one of the primary things I do is try to explain why boycottes will not work. I will conceed that at other times, in other industries boycottes have had an effect but if you study those situations you will find that a unique product, or company was targeted by a large effective group. In those cases they made things happen. However most of those boycottes to my recollection were not motivated by a desire to lower the price of a commodity but rather to have the company change their policy or punish them for something specific they had done. In the case of gas where people think a boycotte will hurt an individual company enough to incent them to lower their price, it's not going to happen. Oil and gas is a commodity driven by a market structure that sets the price from the wholesalers to the individual retailers. The price on the street is soley at the discretion of the site operator. Not only is this the practice, but it is the law. The Petroleum Marketing Act spells out exactly what can and cannot be done when it comes to pricing and collusion and very few oil companies want to take any chances when it comes to that. You point to joint ventures as a sign that big oil companies still own sites. Well they have an interest in the JV's but they have no hand in the day to day operation, do not set prices, and do not own the properties. The independent JV owns the properties and run the sites. If there were any way a boycotte could reduce sales of a particular brand that would have zero effect on price. That oil company would merely sell their product at the wholesale level to whatever other brand absorbed the lost business. What everyone fails to realize as I tried to explain even if sarcastically in my last post was that until total comsumption declines significantly it will have no effect on price. If you want to steer your business to particular sites in your market over others then more power to you. People do that everyday based on their particular beliefs, likes and dislikes, whether it be gas, or groceries, or electronics. That's called competition. The idea that you would call such activity a boycotte is laughable. The total number of sites representing a brand vs the number that the majors still own or even participate in joint ventures with is probably 50-1 among oil companies. And even if JV or company op sites were to feel any impact, they would merely price a few cents under their local competition and win back a lot of business. Boycottes, or even you idea which I don't really even consider a boycotte will not work because 1)no one can orginize such an effort, 2) a slightly lower price will have even the most adament boycotter abandoning their resolve for a lower price, and 3) the fundementals of the business are such that gas cannot be produced, delivered and sourced for much less cost than it currently is. Consumer demand and gas supply drives the price period end of sentence. What you suggest will only effect price if the good or service is price elastic and what US consumers have proven again and again is gas has a very inelastic price. Consumption varies little regardless of price.
warren85slanger Rookie Author Victoria Posts:32 Points:32,035 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 12, 2012 4:45:10 AM Ignore warren85slanger Report Abuse that would be great but there are no independant gas stations in my city!the only thing i seeworking is only going to the cheapest stations
GasTruth Veteran Author Boston Posts:369 Points:112,950 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Apr 11, 2012 11:47:18 PM Ignore GasTruth Report Abuse brerrabbit, it is obvious you have an agenda here that is 180 degrees away from gas buddy members. This must be the case since you have 443 forum posts and 0 as in ZERO gas pRIce postings. But maybe your job for big oil is to monitor internet sites. Just a thought. I can tell you that there are very, very, very many sites that are owned or leased by wholesalers or distibutors, which as I stated was the new landscape of retail gasoline. The new big oil. I know for a fact that in my state of Ma and neighboRIng RI Shell/Motiva sold some 100 stations to colbea. It just so happens that colbea is a joint venture with none other than Motiva, and they operate many of those sites themselves. I'm sure there are other examples of such joint ventures with other distRIbutors and other majors. I could probably narrow done the 3 stations your company owns to a select few. A simple process of elimination. Let us say it is Mobil in Tx. First you eliminate all stations with garages, all stations that pump less than lets say 2 mill a year, stations that have not been redone in the last 7 years, only include stations that have co branded with at least 2 franchises, only include stations that have the newest of pRIce signs and depending on the area must have diesel and a car wash. How am I doing? The simple truth of the matter is that most gas station owners own only 1 or 2 stations. You know. The little guy. The guy I want my business to go to. They probably visit those sites regularly assuming they dont actually work at least one of them. And you know what? Not only do the employees know who the owner is but they have met him and in most cases worked with him.
GasTruth Veteran Author Boston Posts:369 Points:112,950 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Apr 11, 2012 11:20:18 PM Ignore GasTruth Report Abuse catfish first of all assuming 75% of sales are CC and most CC fees are around 2% half of that for debit plus no cost for company cards means the average cost per gallon for CC fees, at $4 a gallon, is about 6 cents a gallon. Second, my plan is to attack every aspect of retail profits of Big Oil, be it major brand co, distributor or wholesaler. An average station doing 150K in gas volume and 60K in conv sales that loses 20% of business will amount to about 7K-8K per month per station in lost revenue. Let us give that money to the retailer getting squeezed out of business by big oil. Higher profits for the dealer will allow them to lower their margins, lower gas prices, and lower volume will cause the big boys to lower prices. Maybe you should think of it as boycott big oil in order to give the profits to the local dealer noy boycott to drastically lower the price. I'd rather my money go to the little guy.
brerrabbitTX Champion Author Houston Posts:1,030 Points:18,285 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 10, 2012 5:11:45 PM Ignore brerrabbitTX Report Abuse I can tell you for a fact that there are very, very, very few sites still owned by the Big Oil Companies. I work for one of the majors and can tell you that we still own about three and I defy you to find them because odds a very good you could not. Also all the majors, may still own some sites, but virtually none of them are operated by the big oil company. They merely own the land and the building, the operation along with setting gas prices and all inside sales belong to an independent operator. As far as asking a clerk who owns the site and them being unable to answer, that means nothing. A clerk may receive a paycheck from one name receive fuel deliveries from another name and pay for twinkies and ho ho's using a check from a third name. That does not mean big oil owns it, it just means the clerk knows nothing about the legal entities involved in ownership. You want to lower oil usage and fuel usage and reduce the amount of oil and gas sold by big oil companies and therby lower your gas cost? It's simple really you and about 50,000,000 of your close personal friends, park the car and walk or ride your bike to work. Buy only locally produced food, goods, and services. Then you will see consumption reduced and achieve your end goal of lower prices through a boycotte, till then dream on.
KnullaMej Rookie Author Oklahoma Posts:85 Points:51,335 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Apr 10, 2012 6:21:57 AM Ignore KnullaMej Report Abuse That won't work, because your local station still buys their gas from the same place all the big companies buy their gas. And its the same place all the big oil companies sell their gas.
catfish99 Champion Author Wilmington Posts:13,989 Points:2,498,475 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2012 6:50:14 AM Ignore catfish99 Report Abuse Ummm...refiners make about a dime a gallon. And the "ten to twenty cents above rack price" is the list price, prior to costs. Credit card fees alone are going to remove eight to twelve cents of that "ten to twenty cents". So your plan is to attack the business making fifteen cents a gallon on a four dollar sale, to lower your price. To what...3.96? You really think that the convenience of having gas when you need it, when you want it, is not worth allowing someone to make a dollar on the sale?
oppy1984 Champion Author Akron Posts:3,607 Points:607,900 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2012 2:37:00 AM Ignore oppy1984 Report Abuse My only problem with gas boycotts is that I'm a self-employed courier and I have to buy gas everyday. I'd love participate in these boycotts but I can't afford to take the time off.
Michael29644 Champion Author Greenville Posts:4,974 Points:844,250 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Apr 8, 2012 12:02:59 AM Ignore Michael29644 Report Abuse "To me the wholesaler squeezing the lease dealer is Big Oil in the new landscape of retail gasoline." You still ignored the best way to cut your gas costs. Use less gasoline.
GasTruth Veteran Author Boston Posts:369 Points:112,950 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 7:20:24 PM Ignore GasTruth Report Abuse To me the wholesaler squeezing the lease dealer is Big Oil in the new landscape of retail gasoline. Alliance Energy bought 89 Mobil stations in 2010 Twelve are dealer owned. Global Partners bought 540 Mobil,Exxon,Shell,Sunoco and Citgo branded stations in 2012, about 280 of those are supply contract only sites. Nouria Energy bought 80 Shell stations in 2011 of which about 20 are lease dealer sites. There are many lease dealer/ dealer owned stations that you can give your business to instead of company owned(wholesaler or distributor) stations. You dont know who owns the business in the station you frequent? Here is an idea. ASK. If the guy at the register doesnt know the name of the owner then it is not a "dealer" location. 1OILMAN my point is that for the most part street price is 10-20 cents above rack price. Not Gross profit or Net Profit. And I would suggest giving whatever is left, from that 10-20 cents, after paying Rack, Rack Plus or DTW along with CC fees go to a dealer NOT a wholesaler, distributor. And if you are going to buy a soda, car wash, coffee or whatever let it go to a "dealer" not Big OIl.
DecILTattleTale Champion Author Illinois Posts:1,328 Points:199,320 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 6:58:58 PM Ignore DecILTattleTale Report Abuse Boycott's don't work in the U.S. anymore - solidarity died in this country after WWII.
Road4Runner Sophomore Author Ontario Posts:170 Points:13,380 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 5:16:44 PM Ignore Road4Runner Report Abuse Walking works for those gas buddies world wide whom are able to walk and have the time to walk. Petro purchased by walkers = $0.00
1OILMAN Champion Author Alabama Posts:2,080 Points:160,730 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 4:02:04 PM Ignore 1OILMAN Report Abuse Last 10-20 cents? In my dreams.
Gas_Buddy Champion Author Maryland Posts:25,985 Points:3,036,015 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 3:01:56 PM Ignore Gas_Buddy Report Abuse First, there are relatively few company-run gas stations. As an example, in June 2008, Exxon Mobil Corp. announced plans to sell its 2,220 company-owned gas stations. Second, as said below, you don't know which gas station is company owned, independent operator owned, or other franchise agreement. Third, if, as you said, "The would sell the same amount of gallons...", how are you making any difference? I don't see the logic of "the non-company owned but branded stations will get the money" making sense. Maybe its just me, but your identifying "Mobil, Exxon, Shell etc" seems to indicate that you don't realize that Exxon and Mobil are, in fact, one company. And, by your including Mobil and Exxon stations on your list of company owned stations, it doesn't appear that you realize that Exxon Mobil Corp. no longer has company owned gas stations. Sorry, but it doesn't seem like you've done your homework regarding company owned gas stations. But...and it's a big "but", let's suppose that you (and everyone else) boycotts company owned gas stations, don't use their stores, etc., and drives them out of business. First, you lose competition in the market place; you have less stations competing against each other. Second, with fewer stations competing against each other, you enable those stations, because there's less competition, to raise prices. Third, you wrote "Since you have to buy gas and choose to use a particular brand then choose to give your business to the local guy." Even if a gas station is company owned, isn't the gas station still, because they're not bringing in employees from across the country to work the shift, really "the local guy"? Sorry, but, based on the way you describe it in the original post, I just don't see what selective boycott you're talking about, or how it could work. At least no based on the way you suggested it. [Edited by: Gas_Buddy at 4/7/2012 3:03:31 PM EST]
khettinger Champion Author Columbus Posts:1,128 Points:1,102,445 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 10:53:21 AM Ignore khettinger Report Abuse boycott's don't work!
HeavyDuty_cache Champion Author Omaha Posts:12,985 Points:2,485,410 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:34:56 AM Ignore HeavyDuty_cache Report Abuse How would people actually know if the station is company owned? Boycotting only company owned stations would not hurt the oil companies since they would just export their overflow product to other countries, NO LOST PROFIT, in fact it might even increase their profit. Also, since oil companies don't only deal with gas or diesel fuel, it also wouldn't hurt them.
Michael29644 Champion Author Greenville Posts:4,974 Points:844,250 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:27:31 AM Ignore Michael29644 Report Abuse Very, very few stations are O&O by the major oil companies. I challenge you to come up with a list of O&O stores. Even if there were many O&O stations, your idea is the same old rehash of the debunked nonsense that gets posted here on an almost daily basis. Unless you USE less gasoline, none of these silly gimmicks will ever have any downward effect on prices.