BigBearyFairy
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Durham
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2007 12:31:20 PM
It's next on our NetFlix queue...
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incognitowally
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Buffalo
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2007 8:48:34 AM
I dont believe TV stations give quacks like Pat Robertson and his 700 Club the time of day during daytime TV. He belongs on TV at 3 AM like the rest of the crackhead evangelists.
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2007 3:46:52 PM
And so the pot calls the kettle black..
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KatmanDo
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Detroit
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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2007 12:24:23 PM
Earlier this week, Pat Robertson apparently was warning his nearly one million viewers of the grave threat posed by Muslims in the US today. Perhaps his words will inspire increased enrollments at "Jesus Camp" this year.
"...last year, the first Muslim was elected to Congress, and Muslims have been elected to a few state and local offices as well. Recently, a Muslim group announced plans to register more Muslims to vote and encourage civic activity. All of this has Robertson worried.
“Well, ladies and gentlemen, there you’ve got it,” Robertson said on his “700 Club” today. “It’s interesting, isn’t it? You know, the Protestant churches, there’s no doctrine of faith that I know in any Protestant denomination that calls for the takeover of the government and making other people second-class citizens. I don’t know of one denomination, Protestant or Catholic, that has that agenda. But yet, Islam has just that agenda, that they want to take over the government and that everybody else is a second-class citizen. That is the primary doctrine of Islam.”"
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timothyu
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Winnipeg
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Message Posted: Mar 21, 2007 5:09:48 PM
It's kind of humorous that in setting up camp in the savage wilderness they escaped nothing but merely took it with them. They are not threatened, they are the threat. I knew someone once who was perpetually on the move trying to escape what made her unhappy never realizing it was herself.
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KatmanDo
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Detroit
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Message Posted: Mar 21, 2007 12:52:09 PM
One can readily picture the spirit of John Winthrop in the description below:
"Let’s go back to 9/11 four years ago. The ruins were still smoldering
when the reverends Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell went on television to
proclaim that the terrorist attacks were God’s punishment of a corrupted
America...Just as God had sent the Great Flood to wipe out a corrupted
world, now—disgusted with a decadent America—“God almighty is lifting
his protection from us.” Critics said such comments were deranged. But
millions of Christian fundamentalists and conservatives didn’t think so.
They thought Robertson and Falwell were being perfectly consistent with
the logic of the Bible as they read it: God withdraws favor from sinful
nations—the terrorists were meant to be God’s wake-up call: better get
right with God...
Suddenly we were immersed in the pathology of a “holy war” as defined by
fundamentalists on both sides. You could see this pathology play out in
General William Boykin. A professional soldier, General Boykin had taken
up with a small group called the Faith Force Multiplier... After Boykin
had led Americans in a battle against a Somalian warlord he announced:
“I know my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God
and his God was an idol.” Now Boykin was going about evangelical
revivals preaching that America was in a holy war as “a Christian
nation” battling Satan and that America’s Muslim adversaries will be
defeated “only if we come against them in the name of Jesus.” For such
an hour, America surely needed a godly leader. So General Boykin
explained how it was that the candidate who had lost the election in
2000 nonetheless wound up in the White House. President Bush, he said,
“was not elected by a majority of the voters—he was appointed by God.”
Not surprising, instead of being reprimanded for evangelizing while in
uniform, General Boykin is now the Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for
Intelligence...
Listen to their preachers, evangelists, and homegrown ayatollahs: Their
viral intolerance—their loathing of other people’s beliefs, of America’s
secular and liberal values, of an independent press, of the courts, of
reason, science and the search for objective knowledge—has become an
unprecedented sectarian crusade for state power. They use the language
of faith to demonize political opponents, mislead and misinform voters,
censor writers and artists, ostracize dissenters, and marginalize the
poor. These are the foot soldiers in a political holy war financed by
wealthy economic interests and guided by savvy partisan operatives who
know that couching political ambition in religious rhetoric can ignite
the passion of followers as ferociously as when Constantine painted the
Sign of Christ (the “Christograph”) on the shields of his soldiers..."
ill Moyer's words at a seminary speech
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KatmanDo
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Detroit
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Message Posted: Mar 21, 2007 12:44:24 PM
"Sounds like it kind of got mixed in with American ideology."
Definitely. As a Canadian, you see it as "American ideology". However, as I pointed out in the NAU topic in Canada Politics, it's really the descendant of a subset of the British Puritan mindset, the one which decided "It'll be safer for us to set up camp in the savage wilderness of the New World, as we know God will soon exact His vengeance on England, destroying it for its evil ways." While Dominionism is considered to have originated in the 20th century US, it's not much of a stretch at all to suggest John Winthrop was a kindred spirit to the movement.
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BigBearyFairy
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Durham
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Message Posted: Mar 21, 2007 9:36:16 AM
Dominionism is scary and about the furthest thing from Christ's teachings. Dominionsist demonstrate that they have no regard for true Christianity.
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Mar 21, 2007 2:20:11 AM
Sounds like it kind of got mixed in with American ideology.
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KatmanDo
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Detroit
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Message Posted: Mar 21, 2007 1:34:01 AM
"...the real question is what kind of religion claiming to be Christian would even consider adding imperialism and capitalism to Christ's teachings in order to create a fascist religion?"
Perhaps the faction known as Dominionists is one example?
"Postmillennialists believe that Christians must take dominion, or control over most of the secular institutions in the world in order for Christ to return. Therefore, they encourage Christians who share their biblical worldview to become politically active.
From George Grant, a leading postmillennial writer in The Changing of the Guard , Biblical Principles for Political Action:
Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ -- to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.
But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice.
It is dominion we are after. Not just influence.
It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time.
It is dominion we are after.
World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less... Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land -- of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ. (pp. 50-51)"
Views of Christian Dominionist writer George Grant
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KatmanDo
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Detroit
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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2007 10:16:59 PM
"The two women who made this movie were very tongue in cheek about their subject matter."
While I haven't seen the film myself yet, another reviewer of the film describes it a bit differently:
"The movie is neither satire nor a Michael Moore type “shock-umentary” designed to show only the worst aspects of the camp. Pastor Becky Fisher, the camp’s leader, has said that she thinks the film represents what she is trying to do."
What I learned at Jesus Camp
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Mar 1, 2007 9:32:14 AM
Qad - I will never, ever seek your lord for he is evil and discriminating. Not to mention a bigot. Your lord loves no one. Death was not created by god. It is just a fact of life.
You may keep your lord. he is not now nor ever will be mine, since he is a figment of the imagination.
Maybe I need to send my foot soldier Satan to pay you a visit and show you the error of your ways.
[Edited by: diamondmike at 3/1/2007 9:35:58 AM EST]
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Qadosh
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Michigan
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Message Posted: Mar 1, 2007 3:27:49 AM
diamondmike, you said, "You think god created everything. Wrong. he did not create me. I am more powerful than your alleged god. he has no power over me and Satan is my friend. Satan also obeys my commands."
--> God says that the wages of sin is death. So it is real easy to prove your alleged power over God; don't ever die.
I suggest you seek the Lord while He may be found, He loves you!
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Feb 28, 2007 10:04:56 AM
Qad - Thank you. So you wish to impose your religious beliefs on homosexuals. Shocking. Not! If you wish to discuss marriage civilly, there is a topic for that. Oh never mind. You think it ends with your interpretation of an imaginary god. I guess I am not married nor was I ever a christian in your interpretation. That and a $5.00 bill will get you a proverbial cup of coffee.
Keep you bigotry and discrimination against homosexuals to yourself. Is Tim Hardaway a friend of yours? Apparently some christians only tolerate those who believe exactly as they do. How sad.
You think god created everything. Wrong. he did not create me. I am more powerful than your alleged god. he has no power over me and Satan is my friend. Satan also obeys my commands.
[Edited by: diamondmike at 2/28/2007 10:07:08 AM EST]
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Qadosh
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Michigan
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Message Posted: Feb 28, 2007 12:21:43 AM
diamondmike, you said, "I got 2 words for you ---Gay marriage. Nuff said."
--> Marriage was given to us by God, men did not come up with the idea, God did. Therefore He defines it.
BTW, it has NEVER been legal in this country for homosexuals to marry, so your argument, "that I would take away you freedom" is completely unfounded.
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Feb 27, 2007 10:03:11 AM
Qad - One more thing - One day the crutch of religion will no longer be needed and we will truly evolve as a species. Until religion and ancient traditions disappear, we will not advance as a race. We will probably destroy ourselves fighting over whose god is the correct one. We truly are a primitive species.
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Feb 27, 2007 9:53:26 AM
Qad - I post because people like yourself and those in this movie would take away my freedom. They cannot see past their little bible and the bigotry espoused by many who follow it.
Need proof?
I got 2 words for you ---Gay marriage. Nuff said.
I will not let the religious right fundamentalists like yourself run all over this country and mine and others freedoms. We have freedom of religion in this country despite what the religious right thinks.
If by some miracle you are correct and I go to hell, I will thank god that I no longer have to put up with the self righteous. And it would be a true miracle if you were correct. You speak to me in absolutes as god being infallible. There is no absolutes in religion. Only belief.
BTW - Your concept of love is believe as I do because I am the only one who is correct. Blah blah. Woof Woof.
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Qadosh
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Michigan
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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2007 11:35:07 PM
diamondmike, Why do you post? You allege that you do not believe in God, so what IS YOUR point? I point people to the infallible Word of God, because Jesus and His Word ALONE can save a soul, but I can point people to the Truth. All I see you do is stir up strife and blaspheme the God who loves you so much that He died for you. You call me unloving, but based on what, your concept of love? If God's Word is True and I KNOW, without doubt, that it is, then I would be VERY unloving not to warn people of their certain doom if they do not repent and turn to Jesus.
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2007 9:39:01 AM
Qad - Blah blah. Why do you post? It does not serve your god. Your god is not my god no matter what you say. I AM GOD! WEG. I know, you are the only true christian on the planet. So what.
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timothyu
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Winnipeg
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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2007 12:17:32 AM
Qadosh.. Nice tirade, but sorry, what is your point in relation to the topic at hand?
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Qadosh
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Michigan
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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2007 11:50:24 PM
There is nothing greater on earth than knowing the Lord Jesus personally, there is NO greater joy. If all you know is the flesh then, naturally, trying to gratify the flesh is what a person will preach. Everyone of us will soon stand before our Creator, the Lord Jesus. You will either be judged by Him or welcomed into His glorious Kingdom by Him.
How arrogant to think we can NOT know God, how utterly preposterous to think we are products of chance or of an unknowable god. I have not seen the movie and do not care to, but I can tell you, with all assurance, that the Word of God is true and there is no greater knowledge that can be gained, by child or adult, than the knowledge of knowing their Creator.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14)
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2007 9:46:42 AM
"Combine the two and what have you got?"
The religious right and gay marriage bans. George W. A theocracy. No freedom of or from religion. A sad state of affairs.
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timothyu
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Winnipeg
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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2007 5:03:18 PM
And these extremists as you call them linked to a political party just caught trying to sneak martial law provisions into a defense budget. Combine the two and what have you got?
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91Firebird
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Oklahoma City
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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2007 2:37:52 PM
Every religion has their extremists....
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timothyu
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Winnipeg
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2007 12:59:37 AM
The two women who made this movie were very tongue in cheek about their subject matter. However in a recent interview in tv, they were very careful not to alienate the religious community to whom this movie would seem perfectly normal. Being true entrepreneurs they simply want to milk both sides for as much of the gate as possible.
Be that as it may, the real question is what kind of religion claiming to be Christian would even consider adding imperialism and capitalism to Christ's teachings in order to create a fascist religion?
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Cloversville
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Washington
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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2007 11:52:33 AM
"These poor, abused kids will never know what a normal life would have ever been like."
I saw "Jesus Camp last night on DVD. First I'll address the above statement. I really doubt if the kids in question spend every single moment focused on God. Believe me, kids who grow up in Christian families do things that "normal" kids do. But if they didn't that would be ok. Bless them that they have been born into families that honor God. Parents that understand that eternity is more important than seeking pleasure here on earth. That serving God on earth is a blessing granted to few.
Ted Haggard's part in the movie bothered me alot. I got to see first hand his calling "homosexuality a sin" during a sermon. How dare he live this double life. What a shame to the christian community. I pray that God would grant him a heart that not only understand's God's word, but also allows him to be obedient.
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Fill-up
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Toronto
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Message Posted: Nov 23, 2006 10:38:21 AM
Truly sad. I can see the next generation has more challenges than it needs. Not only do they solve problems with energy, overpopulation, etc. Now, they will have to overcome all this ignorance as well.
[Edited by: Fill-up at 11/23/2006 10:38:37 AM EST]
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incognitowally
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Buffalo
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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2006 9:33:26 AM
These poor, abused kids will never know what a normal life would have ever been like. Kids should be out playing and having fun with their friends in the neighborhood and at school. Out playing basketball at the park. Out riding bikes and getting skinned knees. Playing video games at sleep overs.. etc..
These kids should be able to come into their own by their own doing, not by someone else's extreme agenda..Sunday school is one thing, but places like this take the cake, for sure.
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TrueBlue2
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North Dakota
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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2006 10:12:44 PM
The ACLU should get involved. Take the children to a safe place, then make the parents pay for the deprogramming.
[Edited by: TrueBlue2 at 11/12/2006 10:13:42 PM EST]
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incognitowally
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Buffalo
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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2006 4:46:53 PM
They are merely grooming a future (army) league of republican voters. GW Bush and Neo-Con supporters to uphold his *wonderful* ideals of corrpution and false-values driven campaigns..
These kids are being abused. What would the authorites think if these kids were being trained in tactical weaponry or combat fighting techniques or even lilke what happened to Elizabeth Smart?
Thought so.
What had to scare me most out of the movie trailer was seeing all of them fall to their knees and start worshiping and wailing at the cardboard cutout of Bush.
We dont have any theatrical showings of this movie here yet.
=====
Does anyone have a link of it available for online viewing?
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2006 4:53:28 PM
Lets see - brainwashing kids. Kids claiming to have found jesus at age 5. Kids spouting rhetoric best reserved for adults who do not know any better.
At age 5 I did not care about god, only more play time. Kids should be kids, not robots.
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ChapJohn
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Tampa
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2006 4:33:18 PM
What specifically do you have against this film clip?
...other than your normal rant?
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2006 3:51:49 PM
Some fundie will start another one though. Probably in the bible belt (southern states) or rural backwater America.
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zippylady
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Toronto
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2006 10:16:46 AM
I'm surprized that someone hasn't called the authorities....maybe it'll be shut down now that it's been exposed.
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2006 4:06:52 AM
Even you cannot think this an acceptable or accurate representation of christianity? At least I hope so.
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ChapJohn
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Tampa
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Message Posted: Oct 7, 2006 11:01:04 PM
Instead, let's just let the humanists brainwash our kids. They are doing such a good job now, so nonviolent, so acceptable by society - even the school system!
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proudlion
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Tampa
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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2006 12:54:21 PM
'Jesus Camp' Creates Split
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2006 1:27:55 PM
This kind of fundamentalist, my way or the highway is outrageous. Lets brainwash our kids to die for jesus. Sounds like terrorists to me.
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bluemoonangel
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2006 2:29:49 PM
More than anything else I am horrified at the prospect that people will waste their money going to see this thing and give these "award winning film makers" money and credibility and validation.
Assuming that there was a Jesus and there is a devil (neither of which I delieve btw) and that they aren't just a myth....Children have no true comprehension. Brainwashing is the KEY here.
Much of what is taught in evangelical churches is of a very cryptic nature. Synbolism is used extensively and is therefore gapeing WIDE OPEN for interpretation.
Becky Fischer Is a very dangerous woman
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BigBearyFairy
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Durham
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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2006 12:49:15 PM
It's scary.
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TrueBlue2
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North Dakota
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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2006 12:12:00 PM
The parents of those children should be brought up on charges. The state should step in and take them where they won't be subject to this harmful and shameful brainwashing.
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