diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Jul 10, 2007 12:56:16 PM
CarSUV - My apologies. I asked a simple question as to whether god was the ultimate judge according to christian beliefs and got an answer reading more into the question than intended. If christians are correct and there is a god, he would be the only judge with an opinion that counts. At least that is what I learned. If that assessment was in error during the time I was christian, then maybe I never understood what being christian is. Unfortunately, IMO, few seem willing to accept differences. According to the answer I got, if one does not follow god, they are working against him.
I complimented BBF and asked a simple question. At least I thought so. I did not imply any of the items in the original response. I did however reply to the accusations as I saw them in the response.
It seems pointless to try to discuss some things with some. Not all. The more I read, the more I am convinced I have made the right choice of religious beliefs for me personally. If that makes me way off base, so be it.
I did answer the original question of whether I had changed religious beliefs previously.
PGM - Be comforted in the fact that we will never meet in this life or the alleged after life. I will never accept god as you have defined him. A god where some of his followers judge people, their actions and beliefs. If by some chance you are correct, I will most definitely be in Hell. That is just fine by me.
As I said, I do not need the judgements of others. In this country, all men are supposedly created equal. That is not true of the god you have shown me you believe in. So be it. That only convinces me that I right not to believe.
Since things have not changed for some here, I will go back into hibernation.
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CarSUVowner
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Memphis
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2007 8:03:53 PM
PGM and diamondmike the topic is "Have you ever changed your religious practices?"....and yes it is open for debate/discussion. However I asked in my original post that: "As usual, NO flaming allowed. Please TRY to stay on topic and please TRY to be respectful of people and their responses. Thank you."
Is it really that hard to adhere to those simple rules? Sheesh.
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PGM
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Houston
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2007 6:17:01 PM
DM -
Like usual, you're way off base......
You said, "Thank for equating me to a burglar in your house"
I originally said "As an example, if we were to see a strange man in our house, ... (it's plain to see he's a burglar)"
I called you a burglar where in this?????
It seems that you have a deep problem & resentment with "anything" Christian. That's obvious by both your comments and your reiterations of your hate cry such as, "I am working against some christians who are imposing their morality on everyone else."
You claim you know what Christians are all about but you can't stand to hear what it really is.
You said, "You read way too much into what I posted."
--> Hmmmm, let me see ... when placed in context you take a jab and say, "According to christian beliefs, I thought god was the sole judge of actions/christianity?" --- And again, all I posted was the correct teaching.
Further you said, "Would you like all non-christians to move to Canada or Mexico so you could have your christian nation?"
--> How does this even relate? Somehow by your flying off the handle like this that is to somehow imply that I think and support this?
Lastly, "I simply thought it was for god to judge us at a later date. I thought christianity or god says - judge not lest ye be judged yourself."
--> That is the subject/teaching I answered. I've seen so many people completely misunderstand what 'judging' means and between this post and the one prior you used it two (2) different ways. I explained the prior.
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CarSUVowner
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Memphis
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2007 5:17:52 PM
Just a gentle reminder to what was said in my original post.
As usual, NO flaming allowed. Please TRY to stay on topic and please TRY to be respectful of people and their responses. Thank you.
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2007 4:12:12 PM
PGM - Now you know why I do not post much any more. You read way too much into what I posted. No where in my simple question did I say or insinuate that christians could not use common sense, be intelligent, or passive. Many christians are not passive, but that is not for this thread.
Do I believe in god? No.
Am I christian? No.
Am I working against what god alleges is right? No. If he does not exist IMO, I cannot do that. I am working against some christians who are imposing their morality on everyone else, at least here in Ohio.
Thank for equating me to a burglar in your house - ie country. So much for freedom of or from religion. Would you like all non-christians to move to Canada or Mexico so you could have your christian nation?
No I do not want scripture to support your position. Why would I? I would not believe it anyway.
I simply thought it was for god to judge us at a later date. I thought christianity or god says - judge not lest ye be judged yourself. If there was a god, I would not answer to anyone but him. Not you or any other person on this planet.
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ahlanwasahlan
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New Jersey
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2007 8:39:13 AM
Grew up Catholic. Became Muslim.
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PGM
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Houston
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2007 8:30:31 AM
"I thought god was the sole judge of actions/christianity? Or did I miss a class or something?"
--> Unfortunately you must have missed that class. The bible tells us differently.
As an example, if we were to see a strange man in our house, would we question his motives? Or does the action of his unwanted and unknown presence speak toward his motives? (it's plain to see he's a burglar)
God said what is good and right and when people don't line up to this it's an obvious conclusion that they don't follow God if they are 'consistently' working against what God told us is right.
Would you like scripture to support this teaching?
I think it's common sense to say that if we see an apple on a tree, it's an "apple tree", and, if we see an orange on a tree, it's an orange tree. can't I judge what kind of tree it is? or are you saying that Christians can't use common sense?
can't I judge a murderer if I see the crime or he admits it to me? If this is true then why can't that also be apply that to other areas pertaining to Christianity? God didn't tell His people to stop thinking. I don't see where you get the idea that Christians are to be these passive, unintelligent, and unwise types of people.
[Edited by: PGM at 7/9/2007 8:30:57 AM EST]
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2007 7:31:28 PM
BBF <<Thanks DM. You'd be welcome at our church. In fact, even conservatives are, but they usually get pissed off and leave in a huff of some sort when the leadership and majority of the congregation refuse to endorse their personal beliefs as the one true way it all has to be.>>
Thank you for being a loving christian.
Question - According to christian beliefs, I thought god was the sole judge of actions/christianity? Or did I miss a class or something?
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stereomom
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Greensboro
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Message Posted: Jul 5, 2007 1:17:34 PM
I attended a Nazarene Church for the first 8 years of my life. At 5 years old I was saved at my uncle's Friends church during a revival service. When we moved to NC, I attended a Wesleyan Church. I was baptized there at 11 and stayed in the Wesleyan Churches until about 5 years ago. We are now attending a Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) which is a very fundamental, conservative, evangelical one. I don't necessarily agree with all of the teachings of the 'Christian' Churches when it comes to 'baptism' but I find that the church I attend is very biblically sound. FYI...Christian (Disciples of Christ) Churches are individually governed and therefore some can be more liberal than others. Ours is not at all liberal or worried about 'Political Correctness'!
I guess the answer to the question for me is that I've pretty much always had the same views when it comes to my Faith.
Blessings!
♥
[Edited by: stereomom at 7/5/2007 1:20:51 PM EST]
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irthekid
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Twin Cities
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Message Posted: Jul 5, 2007 9:55:53 AM
I was born in Indianapolis into a Roman Catholic family and was baptized at about 2 weeks of age. I attended Catholic schools from grade 1 through my sophomore year in college. I have always considered myself to be Catholic and have practiced my faith except for a period of about a year in 73 when I stopped going to church regularly.
My life was not a smooth ride. I had a VIOLENT alcoholic father who terrorized my mom, sisters and me. I received no help from the church and actually was not believed by many teachers and clergy when I brought issues of abuse to them. I feel I had more reasons to leave the church than for staying. I was married to my first wife from 72-91. We had two children and the last half of the marriage was filled with issues each of us had. When my marriage ended it was at the same time (within 20 days) of my 17 year old son's death and within a year of losing my professional certification. In the next 5 years my dad, mom, both grandmothers and 5 cousins all passed away. I became EXTREMELY DEPRESSED and border line suicidal. I went into a deep introspective mode seeking insights into my life. I met a woman, became enchanted with her, packed up and moved to Woonsocket, RI to be with her. We were going to be married. My sisters flew out to meet my new family. We had a big party and my sisters went back home. I drove my sisters to a train to so they could go back to Boston. By the time I got back my fiance told me she couldn't go through with it and I should leave. So, I ended up going back to Indiana. She was a very angry non practicing Catholic. I was very deep in depression and I connected with a woman on an online match site. Against all my basic instincts I met the woman and ended up 18 months later moving to Minnesota and marrying her. She was a church shopper in search of a church. Her parents were devout life long Presbyterians, concerned about her church shopping and now her involvement with a Catholic. We began our marriage by going to two church services every week. Two years later she became Catholic, to the shock of her family and former friends. She has helped me (and still is) helping me see my faith in a new light. My relationship with the Catholic church is different from my faith as a Catholic. I would not have survived without what the church teaches, not with what the church has or hasn't done.
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ChapJohn
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Tampa
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Message Posted: Jul 5, 2007 12:12:34 AM
Started out as a Christian. I developed a close personal relationship with Jesus that is still alive today. Approximately 4 years later, I joined the Presbyterian church where I stayed until my early 30's. I changed to the Baptist church because my wife was more comfortable there. I continued worshiping with the Baptists thru my divorce until I met my current wife. I joined the Lutheran church that she was a member of where we stayed until about 8 years ago. We left the Lutheran church for a variety of reasons (some social, some theological), and began attending the Church of God (Anderson, IN) where I studied for the ministry and became ordained.
At no time did I join a church because it held the answer. I joined groups of people who loved Jesus who just happened to be members of a particular named group. It is God who becomes our Lord and Savior not a human organization, and it is God who accepts us into His family.
People lose their way when they seek to please an organization instead of God...
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pgriff1
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New Orleans
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Message Posted: Jul 3, 2007 2:56:03 PM
Started out Methodist, at 12 the family moved over to the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). I hung out with the Southern Baptist for a couple of years in a small college town then was active with the Methodist student center (Wesley Foundation). After graduation, joined the Epicopal church and currently side with those who wish to remain Anglican.
I've attended independent baptist and non-demon churches which seem to be the same; I get as much out of their worship experience in person as I do watching them on TV.
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BigBearyFairy
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Durham
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Message Posted: Jul 3, 2007 12:33:07 PM
Thanks DM. You'd be welcome at our church. In fact, even conservatives are, but they usually get pissed off and leave in a huff of some sort when the leadership and majority of the congregation refuse to endorse their personal beliefs as the one true way it all has to be.
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Jul 3, 2007 11:52:30 AM
BBF <<Our slogans are "Come as you are," and "Being a Christian is tough, going to church shouldn't be.">>
That is very refreshing to see. You must always be true to yourself and love yourself before others can love you.
Live long and prosper my friend.
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ShanC
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Rochester
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Message Posted: Jul 2, 2007 12:50:21 AM
I was born a Southern Baptist (Say "Amen Brother!").
Upon moving up north, my parents attended a Methodist Church. (DRASTIC change from the Southern Baptist.)
Since I was 9, this was my parents decision.
As long as I can remember, I have questioned everything. This isn't really a good thing to do in a religion. I remember at 6 or 7 years old, a very old Sunday School teacher telling us how "God made the leaves green, and rainbows appear." When I told her that the leaf color is due to the pigmentation from chlorophyll; and the rainbow due to the refraction of light rays - she informed me that since she didn't know what any of that means, it was God that did it. Other things I questioned usually got the reply "Well, God just made it happen - that's how." (As bam15 experienced.)
Thus began my road to finding a belief that was based upon some logic.
Without actually changing to any other religion; I read up on Confucius, Buddhism, Islam, and other religions. All of them had some of the same basic philosophies.
After a long time, and after 'disproving' (so to speak) many aspects of religions; I finally settled on what I had always believed in - that there is some type of supreme being. I later found this to be closest to Deism.
I also believe in the principles contained in many other beliefs.
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bam15
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Mississippi
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Message Posted: Jun 30, 2007 12:04:52 AM
Grew up Southern Baptist with a little Luthran on the side. Until I was out of high school I never missed a service. And to be honest I enjoyed most of it because my peers were there. For a teenager that was very important.
It became very obvious to me at a very young age though, that any hard questions that challenged the "Bible" were answered with "because the bible said so". That just never was good enough for me.
These days I would say I am an agnostic.
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BigBearyFairy
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Durham
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Message Posted: Jun 29, 2007 10:58:00 AM
I grew up in a moderate United Methodist church in a small southern rural community. Unfortunately, that UMC has since ventured a bit far into conservative waters, but I haven't attended there, other than the occasional visit, since I was in college.
In college, I ventured even further into the conservative waters, listening to what people said, rather than God. I spent 18 years running from who I am, first in a small "non-deonminational," "New Testament" church with several key ear markings of a cult. Then after college in a slightly less conservative, but still very conservative "non-deonminational," "New Testament" church.
After running from the truth and hiding behind formulas for salvation, I realized that I really am gay man, not a straight man "dealing with temptaion."
For a while, I split my time between my conservative church and a Metropolitan Community Church home prayer/study group. I found MCC too similar, honestly, to the fundamentalism I was escaping.
After a while, I just didn't go to church for a couple of years. Then I stumbled across a small group at the local United Church of Christ, and I was a regular at the group and an occasional visitor there for a while. But my interest waned.
Then in 2003, a friend emailed me that she and two other pastors were starting a new Disciples of Christ congregation, and she asked my partner and I to be there for the opening service. We went and haven't left yet. We don't go all the time, but that's one of the cool things about our church--you don't have to. Our slogans are "Come as you are," and "Being a Christian is tough, going to church shouldn't be."
So, yeah, I've changed from moderate to conservative and now to liberal.
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diamondmike
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Jun 29, 2007 12:52:57 AM
CarSUV - As you know I am now an atheist. However, I was raised Lutheran. I did attend with a friend in high school at some youth seminars in a Methodist church. Even a church retreat. I know that is shocking. Don't be too shocked. We were in high school and at the retreat we got a little out of hand. Kids will be kids.
Peace to you my friend.
Live long and prosper.
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CarSUVowner
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Memphis
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Message Posted: Jun 26, 2007 10:30:56 PM
I guess I should share my experiences as well. :-)
I was born and raised as a Methodist and attended a First United Methodist church as a child. I also attended a Baptist church while in highschool until my father told me that as long as I lived under his roof I would not be attending that church any longer.
While in the navy I attended services every now and then. All of my life I considered myself to be a protestant or of the the Methodist faith/beliefs. Until about a yr ago I had not attended church for several yrs. I then started attending a non-denominational church here in Memphis. In the fall of this past yr I joined that church. Also in the fall of last yr the church changed from being a non-denominational church to a United Church of Christ. I still attend the church and plan on doing so until I either die or move from Memphis. I will probably seek out another UCC if I do move because I truly enjoy attending an open and affirming all-inclusive church. Seems like everyone likes each other and we all get along for the most part. I actually look forward to getting up on Sunday mornings to go to church!
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PGM
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Houston
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Message Posted: Jun 26, 2007 9:19:08 PM
went from Catholic to Protestant. There are really many differences between the two.
And within the protestant I tried going from Non-denom to baptist, methodist, assemblies of God. All to no avail. I stayed non-denom.
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