Passer
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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 1:51:42 AM
m58,
If God is our employer, then there is no free will.
If my employer told me I can freely choose my own way to finish a job and I did and then he not only fired me for using my free will and imagination but allowed a pyromaniac to burn my house down with me in it because I took him up on his word to do it my own way -- I would say my employer was a monster as much as the pyromaniac he hired (or allowed to do his revenge).
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martini58
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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 6:04:09 PM
ldheinz, what does the Bible say some Christians were formerly?
1 Corinthians 6:9,10.
Does God have a right to choose who will be in the New World?
Did God set the presedence of how we must use our sexuality?
If a model comes with instructions are you going to read the instructions on how to properly put the model together according to the manufacturer of the model, or will you proceed to do it your own way? You have a choice...wonderful to have a choice, isn't it?
If we choose to do it our own way and the model is damaged, is that the manufacturer's fault?
In the same way, God instructs us on how to be happy, if we choose not to listen, is that his fault?
If an employer fires an employee for not following his instructions, should the employer be found fault with?
The same is true with God, if some people choose not to follow God's instructions, should we be surprised if we don't find those persons in the New World?
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 11:46:18 AM
Idheinz:
The gift or real life will not be given to them. It is as simple as that. Using the Bible to justify this kind of prejudice is inexcusable. Christians must follow the example of God's impartiality described in Acts 10:34, 35: "At this Peter opened his mouth and said: “For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial, 35 but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him. . ."
He gives the opportunity to hear the good news of the Kingdom to all sorts of people. How they react to this message is their prerogative. It will be a basis for His judgment when the day of reckoning comes.
This may lead to other question: Is The Bible's view of homosexuality justifiable? You may read the Bible based reasoning on this question here
[Edited by: Chipmunk2 at 4/5/2013 11:52:22 AM EST]
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ldheinz
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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 11:10:06 AM
Chipmunk2 - "Nazi criminals used it as an excuse for their active participation in all kinds of crimes. “I just obeyed the commands” was their excuse."
What about people who use the bible as an excuse for committing crimes? They use "It's in the bible" as an excuse. After all, the bible says to stone to death any homosexuals, for example.
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 11:01:37 AM
Deleted
[Edited by: Chipmunk2 at 4/5/2013 11:04:38 AM EST]
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 10:53:50 AM
For those thinking that the life God promises for all doing His will is unreal.
It is not surprising that many may feel that way. For all they know and are conscious about is the life they "enjoy" right now. Their daily experiences and exposures often prevent them to imagine a perfect life in a perfect world free from any suffering and injustice. Many feel that this life is all there is, and that death ends it all. For them only this kind of short life is real.
This kind of thinking is very sad and deplorable. It is often responsible for all kinds of organized crimes that include the Holocaust, suicides, genocides and all other "...cides". The fear of death is often behind it. Nazi criminals used it as an excuse for their active participation in all kinds of crimes. “I just obeyed the commands” was their excuse.
Hopelessness inspires desperate measures, to prolong this “real” life if it is all there is.
In contrast, the Bible compares man's short life filled with agitation, and void of the hope and purpose that God gives us, to a mere shadow and vanity.
(Job 14:1, 2) "Man, born of woman, Is short-lived and glutted with agitation. Like a blossom he has come forth and is cut off, And he runs away like the shadow and does not keep existing."
(Psalm 144:4) "Man himself bears resemblance to a mere exhalation; His days are like a passing shadow."
(Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) "For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. All are going to one place. . ."
Our Creator, who is a real person, perfectly knows what the real life of human family should be. Judging by the things He created for us to enjoy a happy life full of fascination and contentment, free from toiling and hard labor, we can conclude that He loves us, He is interested in us, and is very generous. That is why in His Word the Bible, He describes the life that he promised a "real life", not just a dream imaginary. There are no limits to the things that he can and is willing to provide for us.
How wise it is then to give heed to the inspired counsel addressed to the rich:
"...to rest their hope, not on uncertain riches, but on God, who furnishes us all things richly for our enjoyment; 18 to work at good, to be rich in fine works, to be liberal, ready to share, 19 safely treasuring up for themselves a fine foundation for the future, in order that they may get a firm hold on the real life." 2 Tim. 6:17-19
This counsel harmonizes with the with the words of Solomon:
(Proverbs 18:10, 11) "The name of Jehovah is a strong tower. Into it the righteous runs and is given protection. 11 The valuable things of the rich are his strong town, and they are like a protective wall in his imagination."
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martini58
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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 5:35:29 AM
Eternal life....do we know what it means?
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martini58
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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 5:25:26 AM
Eternal Life is what religion teaches, but what did Jesus teach?
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ldheinz
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Message Posted: Apr 4, 2013 3:51:32 PM
Chipmunk2 - "A gift is a gift. "
What about imaginary gifts? And from imaginary people? Does that count as much as a real gift from a real person?"
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Apr 4, 2013 3:38:06 PM
Our hope in God’s Kingdom as the solution for all mankind’s problems – and these include getting old and dying - is a treasure of inestimable value.
When millions now living first acquired this hope, their hearts swelled with appreciation! They felt just like the merchant in Jesus’ parable who “sold all the things he had” in order to buy “one pearl of high value.” (Matt. 13:45, 46) This illustration shows that an individual appreciating the true worth of gaining the Kingdom hope of eternal life would be willing to part with everything in order to gain it.
Understanding Bible truth should be equally precious to all those that highly appreciate the gift of life.
A gift is a gift. Usually those who do not appreciate it do not get it. Our Creator, the source of life will not give the gift of life to those who do not sow the heart felt appreciation for it.
Romans 6:23 “For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord”.
So the wise course of action is to get to know our Creator, His personality and purpose for us as well as His requirements.
Some posters in this topic do not think much about the God of the Bible. Some chose to ridicule the God of the Hebrew Scriptures and refer to Jehovah as a bloodthirsty God of war, as the tribal God of the Jews.
All those who are still indecisive about God's qualities may find this information about God's willingness to forgive very heartwarming. Being ready to forgive is in fact one of His most attractive qualities.
[Edited by: Chipmunk2 at 4/4/2013 3:42:10 PM EST]
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ShanC
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Message Posted: Apr 3, 2013 11:30:13 PM
It's turned ugly.
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Mar 29, 2013 6:37:57 PM
Going back to the kingdom good news and eternal life.
Jesus Christ said this about "the kingdom of the heavens; Matt. 11:11 "Truly I say to YOU people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the BAptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is."
What did Jesus mean by saying this?
It is true that eternal life will be enjoyed both, by those resurrected and taken to the "heavenly abodes" prepared for them by Jesus and by those that are to benefit from their rule and priestly services here on earth.
Jesus Christ explained to his disciples that John’s coming was a fulfillment of the prophecy at Malachi 4:5, 6, that God would send Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. Nevertheless, great as John was ("Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the BAptist"), he would not be one of "the bride" class who will share with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom rule (Re 21:9-11; 22:3-5).
In John 3:13 Jesus Said: "Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man".
The hope and privilege to be called to these elevated positions of kings and priests was open to his faithful followers after Jesus sacrificed his life. So anyone who died prior to his death is sleeping and waiting to be resurrected to live here on earth. And John the baptist was put to death before Jesus, by means of his death opened the way to the heavenly calling.
Ap. Paul wrote this about all those experiencing the heavenly calling:
Philippians 3:20: "As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens, from which place also we are eagerly waiting for a saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21?who will refashion our humiliated body to be conformed to his glorious body according to the operation of the power that he has, even to subject all things to himself."
The above may not be of interest to those who chose not to believe in the Bible that it is a Word of God.
But I thought that those who do, may show interest. I would like to see how you feel about Jesus' words from Matthew 11:11.
[Edited by: Chipmunk2 at 3/29/2013 6:40:45 PM EST]
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reb4
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Message Posted: Mar 29, 2013 3:03:19 PM
Then again, Jesus did not only heal blindness with his "special formulated" mud...
As we read in Mark 10:46 - 52, Then they came to Jericho. As Jesus and his disciples, together with a large crowd, were leaving the city, a blind man, Bartimaeus (which means “son of Timaeus”), was sitting by the roadside begging. When he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to shout, “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!”
Many rebuked him and told him to be quiet, but he shouted all the more, “Son of David, have mercy on me!”
Jesus stopped and said, “Call him.”
So they called to the blind man, “Cheer up! On your feet! He’s calling you.” Throwing his cloak aside, he jumped to his feet and came to Jesus.
“What do you want me to do for you?” Jesus asked him.
The blind man said, “Rabbi, I want to see.”
“Go,” said Jesus, “your faith has healed you.” Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.As for Eternal Life... Same chapter... 29 - 31 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Mar 29, 2013 12:27:24 PM
"The pharmaceuticals can't patent it... yet."
I like this! It is light but it makes the point!
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Mar 29, 2013 11:49:04 AM
"So why don't we use mud to cure blindness today, reb4? Because we have REAL medicine now, I guess."
The pharmaceuticals can't patent it... yet.
"reb4 - "Jesus teaching is quite clear."
Clear as mud."
What Jesus taught is clear. What religion teaches can be rather murky and self serving.
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ldheinz
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Message Posted: Mar 29, 2013 9:19:04 AM
So why don't we use mud to cure blindness today, reb4? Because we have REAL medicine now, I guess.
reb4 - "Jesus teaching is quite clear."
Clear as mud.
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Mar 29, 2013 8:49:49 AM
Eternal life under the rule of God's Kingdom is to be enjoyed not only in heaven but also on earth.
Many churches of Christendom fail to teach about this. Yet God's Word, the Bible makes this hope very clear to us.
It is true that Jesus Christ has prepared some places in the house of his Father for his faithful followers, yet not all of them are going there.
During the Lord's Evening Meal he made it very clear that he invites there only those with whom he makes a covenant for a Kingdom:
Luke 22:28-30: "...YOU are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; 29?and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30?that YOU may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones".
In Revelation 5:10 we read that Jesus Christ, on the basis of his sacrificial death "made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth."
For their ruling from heavenly abodes over the earth to have any meaning, the earth must be populated with people. This harmonizes with Isaiah 45:18: "For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: 'I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.'
All those ruling over the inhabited earth make up a "little flock" mentioned by Jesus in Luke 22:32. "Have no fear, little flock, because YOUR Father has approved of giving YOU the kingdom."
This harmonizes with the fact that in Revelation 14:1,3 their number is limited to 144 000 and that they are "bought from the earth".
They were seen by John on the heavenly Mount Zion standing together with the Lamb Jesus Christ.
Under the rule of these kings and priests our planet earth will be transformed to a global paradise, free from any suffering, as the "Maker of it" purposed when blessing Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden.
He never canceled his original purpose and intention. That is why Jesus Christ thought his followers to pray: Matt. 6:10: "Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth".
Yes, this prayer WILL be answered and God's will will be done on earth.
Our planet will be restored to perfect harmony and all those responsible for their ruination now will be gone, they will be brought to ruin as Rev. 11:18 says: "But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth."
Jesus assured us of the earthly hope in his sermon on the Mount:
Matt.5:5: "Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth."
In the book of Psalms we read about this comforting hope:
Psalm 37:10,11 "And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace."
Psalm 37:29:29: "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it."
And Rev. 21:3,4 assures us: " With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."
Isn't that a wonderful and comforting hope? It really deserves our utmost attention and prayers. We should keep praying for God's Kingdom to come, to introduce there long awaited and desirable condition. It is the best good "breaking" news possible, deserving worldwide proclamation, which in fact is underway right now. It is our choice if we want to be “obedient to the the good news of God ". 1 Peter 4:17
[Edited by: Chipmunk2 at 3/29/2013 8:56:36 AM EST]
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reb4
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Message Posted: Mar 29, 2013 8:47:26 AM
May Jesus heal your blindness with mud as he did with the blind man as told to us in John 9 1-6
As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man’s eyes. “Go,” he told him, “wash in the Pool of Siloam” (this word means “Sent”). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.
at the end of John 9 after the religious leaders tried to deny the healing that Jesus did to the blind man Jesus spoke the man he had healed again...
John 9:35-41 Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”
“Who is he, sir?” the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.”
Jesus said, “You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you.”
Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”
Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, “What? Are we blind too?” Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.Please note some important fact in this passage... The blind man worshipped Jesus... And Jesus did not rebuke him...
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Mar 29, 2013 7:05:38 AM
Reb4 posted: "Jesus teaching is quite clear."
Yes it is very clear, Reb4! But the teaching of the Trinitarians' is as clear as mud! An example with scriptural reasoning I gave you with John 10:30, which you chose to refuse. This scripture can not be used to prove Trinity. Yet the Trinitarians stubbornly like to use it.
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reb4
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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2013 4:59:46 PM
Jesus teaching is quite clear.
And so much clearer than some people twisting it's meaning...
After Jesus fed the Five thousand (that # does not include women and children)
John 6:25 - 51 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
“Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”May all do the work Jesus / God called us to do... "Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
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mexicomaria
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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2013 4:31:24 PM
1.John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
~~~~~~~~~
John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."
John 8:24 - "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am (He), you shall die in your sins." A.Note: In the Greek, "He" is not there.
~~~~~~~~
John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"
Exodus 3:14 - "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5.John 10:30-33 - "I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
John 20:28 - "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Col. 2:9 - "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."
***Phil. 2:5-8 - "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Heb. 1:8 - "But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."
Quoted from
Psalm 45:6, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom."
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2013 2:16:54 PM
Reb4:
If you expect my reply to your post, you will not get it, for the reason that I stated in my previous reply to you. It was posted under another topic, and you can still review it.
[Edited by: Chipmunk2 at 3/28/2013 2:20:34 PM EST]
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reb4
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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2013 12:31:24 PM
Luke 4: 5-8 "The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours.”
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’"
Per the misuse of this passage to manipulate the intent... Jesus responding to the worship satan... As for getting back to eternal life...
John 10: 7 - 10 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
Jesus came to offer life... for those that are "His"
1 John 5: 12 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
If these verse were not enough for a follower to understand...
When the lord was with his Disciples as written in John 14:1-14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.” Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
I pray that you experience the personal fellowship with God who promised this to His followers, and you could then truly witness the Glory at this most holy time of year...
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2013 6:45:46 AM
Going back to the theme of eternal life that was so abruptly interrupted.
Anyone that wants to enjoy it must recognize the role of the King of God's Kingdom Jesus Christ. One of the titles bestowed upon him is Eternal Father.
Isaiah 9:6,7: "For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this."
By the grace of his Father Jehovah, His son became the Eternal Father after he paid the price in behalf of all those of Adam's offspring that demonstrate their faith in him and appreciation for his sacrifice. Jesus replaces Adam as our Father. 1 Cor. 15:45 describes him as Adam and as a "life giving spirit". The price of his blood makes it possible for us to enjoy eternal life, whether by means of surviving the end of the world or by means of resurrection under his Kingdom.
He demonstrated well and beyond any doubt his power to resurrect those fallen asleep in death.
Interestingly in Isaiah 11:10 he is described as the root of Jesse, David's Father, and Jesus' distant ancestor. Any plant or tree gets its life from the root, so Jessy will get his life from Jesus when Jesus with his voice will call him back from his sleep.
So life eternal is possible. It is a gift from the ultimate source of life, Jehovah God.
Psalm 36:9: "For with you is the source of life; By light from you we can see light."
Condition is spell out in John 3:16 and 17:3.
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2013 5:41:25 AM
MM: There is no need to be so defensive, as I did not ask you to glorify or to boast yourself personally. Sounds like you have guilty feelings about my question. I just asked generally about your brotherhood, your spiritual brothers and sisters, how they measure up to the requirement of producing the fruits of the Kingdom.
You had a good opportunity to defend them but you missed it, and this makes the reasons for it more obvious.
I am not expecting now your reaction as you said you are leaving this discussion now, but in case you are reading this please be aware that the ap. Paul that you quoted did glorify his ministry for he wrote in Romans 11:13: "Now I speak to YOU who are people of the nations. Forasmuch as I am, in reality, an apostle to the nations, I glorify my ministry,". So there is nothing wrong to relate good results from our ministry, if they encourage others and prove the backing of God's holy spirit. His letters and the book of Acts are full of them.
[Edited by: Chipmunk2 at 3/28/2013 5:42:49 AM EST]
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mexicomaria
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 11:34:12 PM
But far be it from me to glorify [in anything or anyone] except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Galatians 6:14 AMP
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mexicomaria
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 11:28:15 PM
I know the King personally, He is my Salvation...it is His blood that brings me into the presence of God. Thanks be to God for his inexplicable gift. My intend is not to argue, my intent is to share Christ. I will leave this discussion now.
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 9:21:42 PM
MM question about who is the King, shows how oblivious she is as to the basic teaching of God's Word the Bible. I will not answer her question. Let her find out on her own if her question is sincere and honest.
Her provocative question brings to mind the crying of the religious Jesus' opponents demanding his death from Pilate: "We have no king but Caesar". John 19:15
Involvement in worldly politics is a good indication of this. Jesus Christ drew a clear line between worshipping of the true God, and worldly politics saying: "By all means, then, pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God." Luke 20:25
It does not take a very educated mind to figure this out, that the two do not mix. No wonder Christendom is in its dying stage, and the worse is yet to come! What is in store for her? Just read Revelation ch.17 and 18.
As to the works of the Kingdom, Jesus followers have the right to make judgments, for he said:
Matt. 7:15-20: "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16?By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17?Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18?a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19?Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20?Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]."
The fire is already underway! Just read the topic "Christanity in the news". And for Christendom it is a well deserved fire.
[Edited by: Chipmunk2 at 3/27/2013 9:32:26 PM EST]
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 8:48:29 PM
That's right. Otherwise there was no need for Him to spend a couple of years promoting His Gospel.
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mexicomaria
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 8:38:39 PM
If you have a kingdom....there must be a king....who is the KING? There is no Kingdom without a King.
I do not have to list my works here, because anything I do of any worth will only be because of the Holy Spirit working in me, and the glory goes only to God.
God's work in me is nothing to list and brag about,,,because it is not of me anyway.
Don't miss the King...for there will be no kingdom without Him.
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 5:54:26 PM
So, MM, it is not good to keep repeating the grace of God and faith in Jesus like a mantra, as if these were the ticket for salvation! We need to qualify them.
A very important qualifying requirement is mentioned in Matt. 21:43: "This is why I say to YOU, The kingdom of God will be taken from YOU and be given to a nation producing its fruits".
Producing the fruits of the Kingdom is in fact one of the signs that can help us to identify the true Christians among the thousands claiming to be such, for just claiming to be "Classic" (whatever that means) or "Biblical" Christians does not mean much.
Fruits of the Kingdom can be produced be preaching about it. This is a requirement stipulated by Jesus in Mark 13:10, and by Paul in Romans 10:10 where Paul wrote:
"For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation."
How does your, MM, brotherhood measure up to this requirement? People that came with the good news of the Kingdom to my doors were not your brothers or sisters. In fact by your involvement in politics you make it evident that your brothers do not have a slightest idea what God's Kingdom really is. How anyone making public remarks which political party or candidate should be in power can honestly preach about God's Kingdom!
In 1 John 5:19 we read that "the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one"
And Satan himself told this to Jesus in Luke 4:5,6 where we read:
"5 So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time; 6?and the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it."
And Jesus did not deny or object to his claim.
God's Kingdom is the sole solution for mankind's problems that started with the expulsion of our first parents from the garden of Eden. This solution will not be brought about slowly, by process of reforms and adaptations. Changes will be drastic and spectacular, and for the most of the earth's population unpleasantly surprising. That is why this preaching campaign regarding God's Kingdom is so vital. God wants everyone to be aware of this.
[Edited by: Chipmunk2 at 3/27/2013 5:58:40 PM EST]
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 3:54:22 PM
Or in others words, the works/fruit match up with the change of ideals repented of from worldly to those of the Kingdom.
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mexicomaria
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 3:25:21 PM
Works is the working of the Holy Spirit in you....if not the HS then you are taking credit....If you are born again , then you are born of the Spirit....Prior to faith your works are as filthy rags....in other words , worthless. After born your works are out pouring of HS. So all the glory is Christ,s...So works withoutChrist first...{faith} is just works....no glory..
Come to the foot of the cross...that the Holy Spirit might do a work in you.
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 2:07:23 PM
(James 2:17) ".?.?.faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself".
(James 2:26) ".?.?.Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.?.?."
(1 Peter 4:17) "For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the end be of those who are not obedient to the good news of God?"
If you feel that only faith in Jesus can save you, then the above verses may open your eyes MM.
And the good news that we need to obedient to is in its essence about God's Kingdom!
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 1:54:17 PM
Don't forget His Gospel He taught...
Mark 1: 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Luke 9: 1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. 2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.Matthew 9: 35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom
Luke 4: 43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.
Mark 16: 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
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mexicomaria
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 1:45:18 PM
Titus 3:5 (ESV)
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Romans 11:6
6 oBut if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
John 3:16 (ESV)
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Romans 6:23 (ESV)
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 17:3 (ESV)
3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
Romans 3:22 (ESV)
22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Acts 4:12 (ESV)
12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus is the way....nothing else.
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Chipmunk2
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 12:45:58 PM
Since our eternal life depends upon our acceptance of the good news of God's Kingdom, it is very important to understand its nature and identity.
What is God's Kingdom that was to be preached about to all the nations before the end comes? What is good about the good news of this kingdom?
Why should we pray for it to come?
Some posters commenting here about God's Kingdom may find it very surprising, and also very comforting to find out what God himself reveals about his Kingdom in His Word the Bible.
Although it is true that our Creator's rule and sovereignty reaches everywhere into all parts of the universe and more, yet the Kingdom good news is not about His dominion in this general sense. Neither it is some kind of feeling in your heart only, as Catholics and others want us to believe.
Reasons?
First:
It is a powerful government that is to bring to nothing all other human governments in order to rule over the world of mankind without any opposition or challenges.
Dan. 2:44: “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite”
As you see here this Kingdom was to be set up, which means that before being set up it did not exist. It also means that this Kingdom can not be just a heart's feeling. It is so powerful that it will pulverize all other kingdoms. (Kingdoms in Bible times correspond to today's governments)
The power of God's Kingdom reaches even further. In Romans 16:20 we read: “For his part, the God who gives peace will crush Satan under YOUR feet shortly.”
This leads us to another reason:
Second:
There are human beings that are highly privileged to be part of that Kingdom, for under their feet Satan is to be crushed. Daniel prophesied about them in chapter 7, where he speaks that besides the 'son of man' (Jesus Christ) others will receive the Kingdom.
Daniel 7:18, 22. “But the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will take possession of the kingdom for time indefinite, even for time indefinite upon times indefinite... judgment itself was given in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself.
Ap. John saw the vision of the royal heavenly Mount Zion where besides the Lamb (Jesus Christ) were also 144 00 others, bought from the earth standing (or ruling) beside him. They are his loyal and faithful followers, that Jehovah adopts as His spiritual sons. Jesus considers them as his brothers, having the name of his Father written on their foreheads.
More about God's Kingdom you can find here in this link.
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reb4
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 10:54:47 AM
John 14:5 -7 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”Mahatma Ghandai definitely knew of Jesus Christ. I do believe it's a personal choice.
John 10:9 - 13 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
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Passer
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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 2:19:28 AM
If you think that John 3:16 means that, for example,
Mahatma Gandhi is Eternally Damned and in Hell, then you are mistaken, reb4...
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reb4
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Message Posted: Mar 26, 2013 11:10:58 PM
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16 i
Passer, this verse seems to contradict your claim.
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Passer
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Message Posted: Mar 26, 2013 6:24:42 PM
"He wants us to be part of His Kingdom."
There is no part of Creation that is not His.
There is no "vacuum" where He is not.
We ARE all part of "His Kingdom", always.
There is no ticket to Eternal Life to be punched. If there is Eternal Life, that ticket was "punched" before the beginning of Time and our adventures within it.
When Time ends, we will look back at him like the hard nosed and merciless mentor that he is. But his purpose to exist is limited while ours is endless. We watched his birth in awe and trepidation but will watch his death with relief and unmitigated joy, and he will take all his religious props with him. His last words may as well be, "the Joke was on you." Finally, it will be time to Laugh.
[Edited by: Passer at 3/26/2013 6:26:05 PM EST]
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 3:15:26 PM
God doesn't want us to become part of a religion. He wants us to be part of His Kingdom.
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 1:45:53 PM
And you seem confused by the scripture posted
1 John 4: 15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
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reb4
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 1:24:39 PM
TimothyU, you seem to be "confused" by the concept that Jesus was both "fully man" and Fully God... Since you have a problem with the fact that Jesus was God, here are some verses...
Matthew 2:2- and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” \ \
Matthew 2:11- On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. Matthew 14:33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” John 20:28 - Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
Heb. 1:8 -But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
Mark 1:1 - 1 The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God. Acts 7:59 - While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
1 Pet. 2:22- “He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.”
Heb. 4:15 - For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. John 21:17 - The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.”
Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. Col. 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 10:31:29 AM
Son of God
1 John 4: 15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
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reb4
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 8:51:50 AM
so you don't believe Jesus is God?
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Mar 21, 2013 6:11:36 PM
Nope. Follow is not to worship. He told us what to do in His Gospel of the Kingdom.
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reb4
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Message Posted: Mar 21, 2013 2:47:06 PM
Good timothyu, so are Christians , or lets just say followers of Christ... called to worship Jesus?
[Edited by: reb4 at 3/21/2013 2:51:47 PM EST]
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2013 5:53:32 PM
That would be Jesus' prime teaching, His first commandment.
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reb4
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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2013 5:42:58 PM
Jesus taught many things, but we are also to worship God. Love the Lord your God, with all your heart, sould mind...
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